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I'm not to sure where this belongs. Its not really a genre persay and It doesn't really fit into the hierarchy as far as I can tell. I think this page may not be needed unless there we were to create a Category for music of each country of origon but that seems like alot of work so for now in the spirit of wikiness (I think its a cool word) I present this page for votes for deletion.

PS. I'm still waiting for my scyops from mickey so even if the vote passes we can't delete this page yet :( --Diploid 16:01, 7 Sep 2005 (EDT)

I agree that this category is very difficult to place. However, few people can deny that "Latin Music" does not have its own style. I hesitate to delete this category, because I feel that the music that could be listed here deserves being grouped separately from Jazz or World music, which is where it would otherwise be grouped, I'm sure. Here is Wikipedia's definition of Latin Music.

That said, where do I feel it should be grouped? It's difficult to say. In my opinion, Latin Music tends to be a mix of rock, jazz and blues styles, among others. That would make it fusion -- so perhaps it could be a subcategory of fusion? Or maybe it could be grouped under "Popular Music", becoming its own separate category?

You do raise an interesting point about whether we are willing to start grouping music from each country. I hesitate to go down that route and for now would be happy seeing most other styles be grouped under "World", but I feel that the latin style is popular enough that it isn't totally confined to a particular region anymore. It's not even rare to hear latin influenced pop music on the radio.

I could be convinced to vote for deletion, but first I would like to see some more feedback and opinions over how (if at all) Latin Music should/could be grouped. If I had to pick somewhere, from the choices I've suggested above, I would probably put it under its own category under "Popular Music". --RockyRaccoon 7 Sep 2005.

Ok, I think I was a bit rash in putting this page up for deletion. For the time being I can live with Latin Music under Popular Music. But seeing as it does not contain any songs simply subcategories and as it does not seem the type of category to contain anything but subcategories I am removing it from genre, as I think it is best if it only contains categories which actually have songs in them as it avoids frustration on the user's behalf.

I think major changes may need to be made to the hierarchy of genres to accomidate Latin music. I was going to add more first teir categories to the hierarchy once songs were available to fill them, maybe it would fit better in one of them. Proposed Top Level Hierarchy Categories:

• Folk Music
• National Anthems

--Diploid 21:11, 7 Sep 2005 (EDT)

Perhaps its a good idea to delete the subcategory "Latin Jazz"? The reason I created that was because sometimes it's difficult to categorize unusual styles of music. I'd be happy enough grouping Buena Vista Social Club under the "Latin" category if its helpful. --RockyRaccoon 7 Sep 2005

No, I'm fine with "Latin Jazz" I was just mentioning that Latin belongs only in the genre(hierarcy) if it is not to contain songs. If you think that in future songs which are pure Latin will be added then, by all means, latin should stay in genre.

On the subject of categories, and the lack of structure in the sytem, I am wondering as to whether a Help:Categoization page should be created with the purpose of laying down rules to categorization. As all rules currently in place are simply JohnM's, Mickey's and my own undocumented creations --Diploid 22:51, 7 Sep 2005 (EDT)

Well, I was thinking that instead of a separate "Latin Jazz" category, maybe its better to put those songs in both "Latin" and "Jazz" categories? What do you think?

Also, as far as subcategories go, I think it might be a good idea to place bands in the proper subcategory, but also the categories above them in the hierarchy. For example, the Christian category could contain all the bands in its subcategories, but then the subcategories would further split them. If I went to look up a band there, I might not know where it is grouped under "Christian Pop" or "Christian Rock", but I'd know it should be under "Christian". Plus, I may not be interested in separating them by the subcategory -- maybe I just want to see a list of all "Christian" bands in one spot. Similar arguments hold, for example, in the Rock category. How do I know if Nirvana will be listed under "Alternative Rock" or "Grunge"? And what if I just want to see all "rock" songs together? Seems reasonable. If you agree, do you think its possible to automate it somehow? (i.e. if i group something under "Christian Pop", it would automatically appear there as well as all higher levels) or must it be done manually all the time (which is, of course, more tedious).

Lastly, I think it's a great idea to put a brief description of what belongs in each category. Perhaps it could be done on the actual category page? (where you say "Here is a collection of ..." etc? --RockyRaccoon 8 Sep 2005

I still think latin Jazz is needed as it is different enough from Jazz to need its own category.

I see your point that some people may be unsure as to what subcategory a page might be in. To automate it so all subcategories pages appear on the higher level category though, this is a bit tricky. I have heard of this before on Metawiki as a proposed change to the software, I think it was called carpet categories or something, but I don't think it was ever inacted. I'll look into it however in the mean time I think someone more knowledgable in wiki code such as JohnM might have a better idea. One possible solution to this would just be to add each artist to all possible categories they would we in (obviously excluding high level categories which don't have songs).

This discusion is moving further away from Latin and more towards a general discusion of the hierarchy of genre's. Perhaps it would be best if we moved this conversation to genre(Hierarchy)

PS. Adding an customized description to a category is no problem, you could just edit the page and put it after the template (see Category:Popular Music's breif description]]. If you want to actually change the template itself you'll have to go to Template:Category however this will change all the categoires descriptions.

--Diploid 14:09, 8 Sep 2005 (EDT)